a sol cafe manifesto: God leads this church, not us

a sol café manifesto

This is an attempt to capture a bit of what the sol café is all about. It will not capture everything. It won't even come close.

This is not a statement of faith. This is not a statement of vision. It's just a statement.

This is a piece of our manifesto:

God leads this church, not us

No, really. Christians will usually say God leads their church, but do they actually let him when it comes right down to it? We're trying.

contributed by the sol cafe webguy

13 response(s):

Joseph Walker says...: yeah, that's a tough one to live out, individually and corporately. my gut tells it all boils down to mercy.
the sol cafe webguy says...: Just mercy? And how exactly mercy?

I do agree it's about what your gut tells you. Tough way to run an "organized" religion though.
Dave says...: So how do you know if your human gut feeling is conflicting with more divine desires. AKA you are wrong.
Winston says...: Hmmm, good question. Maybe it can't just be your gut, but it certainly can't just be your brain. Start to try determining "God's purpose" through pure logic and you're as hooped as if you just blindly followed your emotions or knee-jerk reacted to every gut feeling you ever had.

Could be why the foundation verse for this manifesto talks of loving God with heart and soul and mind -- checks and balances.

And why we do church "in fellowship" -- together, in groups, accountable to one another. And accountable to some extent to all the other Christian churches out there.

And why each of us is free to question. And study. And pray directly to God.

And why it is so very vital that the Christian faith grounds itself in God's forgiveness. Because we often are wrong.

I think, though, that a good first step is to repeat the title statement of this post: "God leads this church, not us." If we start by remembering that he's running the show, our being wrong, or our having to be right, becomes less of an issue.
Joseph Walker says...: who said anything about "human" gut feeling?
long post coming on the modern division between heart and head. (the hebrews used the equivalent of kidney to express the place where God moves in us)
steve the z says...: Holy Spirit?
Winston says...: Well, yeah, sure, "Holy Spirit", but I think Dave's question still applies. How can you tell it's the Holy Spirit rather than a gut reaction rising up out of, say, some childhood trauma?

How do we really know if it's God who wanted this church to meet in a coffee shop, or just the human desires of those of us who are the sol cafe irregulars?
joe says...: i can only go with what is going to sound cliche, but in answering the question about "do we let him when it comes right down to it";

ascribing all our good actions to essentially God's mercy is consistent with what I understand grace to be about, it gives the credit and the glory to God (it's all about God's mercy helping me/us to be guided and make decisions)

What did my gut tell me? that it all boils down to mercy - God's mercy to lead a bunch of disciples who quite likely repeat the mistakes of the first ones.

the focus, for me, is not the gut, it's the presence of God's mercy - that's what I mean when I say it all boils down to mercy - if I am letting God lead me, it's more because He is merciful to me than because I have "let him" lead me.

I think every action that involves some kind of risk (and even many that don't, or even all that don't) depend to a great extent on God's mercy, interacting with our own wills & desires. this is becoming a ramble so I'll go have a latte...
steve the z says...: how was the latte, the taste of mercy?
Dave says...: PREMISE 1: Our experiences & knowledge can drastically alter our gut reaction to many situations.

1.1 A person can train his/herself to do many things and react in many ways. A person can also be trained, influenced and guided by others.

PREMISE 2: If we do nothing our external environment will shape our gut reaction.

How do we train our gut reactions to be closer to divine?
steve the z says...: holy spirit?
joe says...: Dave - good questions; in partial answer I put a post up above.
Anonymous says...: God does lead his church-if we allow Him to lead. We need to seek him in prayer and read his word. When we feel him leading us in one area, we need to confirm that it lines up with scripture.

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	antecedents church should not be a barrier to people getting t... we don't get why the world is so screwed up we have more questions than we have answers our whole life is an act of love our whole life is an act of service our whole life is an act of worship we believe in God (but you don't have to) more manifesto March 2006 April 2006 July 2006 October 2006 January 2007 July 2007 now			a sol café manifesto This is an attempt to capture a bit of what the sol café is all about. It will not capture everything. It won't even come close. This is not a statement of faith. This is not a statement of vision. It's just a statement. This is a piece of our manifesto: God leads this church, not us No, really. Christians will usually say God leads their church, but do they actually let him when it comes right down to it? We're trying. contributed by the sol cafe webguy 13 response(s): Joseph Walker says... yeah, that's a tough one to live out, individually and corporately. my gut tells it all boils down to mercy. the sol cafe webguy says... Just mercy? And how exactly mercy? I do agree it's about what your gut tells you. Tough way to run an "organized" religion though. Dave says... So how do you know if your human gut feeling is conflicting with more divine desires. AKA you are wrong. Winston says... Hmmm, good question. Maybe it can't just be your gut, but it certainly can't just be your brain. Start to try determining "God's purpose" through pure logic and you're as hooped as if you just blindly followed your emotions or knee-jerk reacted to every gut feeling you ever had. Could be why the foundation verse for this manifesto talks of loving God with heart and soul and mind -- checks and balances. And why we do church "in fellowship" -- together, in groups, accountable to one another. And accountable to some extent to all the other Christian churches out there. And why each of us is free to question. And study. And pray directly to God. And why it is so very vital that the Christian faith grounds itself in God's forgiveness. Because we often are wrong. I think, though, that a good first step is to repeat the title statement of this post: "God leads this church, not us." If we start by remembering that he's running the show, our being wrong, or our having to be right, becomes less of an issue. Joseph Walker says... who said anything about "human" gut feeling? long post coming on the modern division between heart and head. (the hebrews used the equivalent of kidney to express the place where God moves in us) steve the z says... Holy Spirit? Winston says... Well, yeah, sure, "Holy Spirit", but I think Dave's question still applies. How can you tell it's the Holy Spirit rather than a gut reaction rising up out of, say, some childhood trauma? How do we really know if it's God who wanted this church to meet in a coffee shop, or just the human desires of those of us who are the sol cafe irregulars? joe says... i can only go with what is going to sound cliche, but in answering the question about "do we let him when it comes right down to it"; ascribing all our good actions to essentially God's mercy is consistent with what I understand grace to be about, it gives the credit and the glory to God (it's all about God's mercy helping me/us to be guided and make decisions) What did my gut tell me? that it all boils down to mercy - God's mercy to lead a bunch of disciples who quite likely repeat the mistakes of the first ones. the focus, for me, is not the gut, it's the presence of God's mercy - that's what I mean when I say it all boils down to mercy - if I am letting God lead me, it's more because He is merciful to me than because I have "let him" lead me. I think every action that involves some kind of risk (and even many that don't, or even all that don't) depend to a great extent on God's mercy, interacting with our own wills & desires. this is becoming a ramble so I'll go have a latte... steve the z says... how was the latte, the taste of mercy? Dave says... PREMISE 1: Our experiences & knowledge can drastically alter our gut reaction to many situations. 1.1 A person can train his/herself to do many things and react in many ways. A person can also be trained, influenced and guided by others. PREMISE 2: If we do nothing our external environment will shape our gut reaction. How do we train our gut reactions to be closer to divine? steve the z says... holy spirit? joe says... Dave - good questions; in partial answer I put a post up above. Anonymous says... God does lead his church-if we allow Him to lead. We need to seek him in prayer and read his word. When we feel him leading us in one area, we need to confirm that it lines up with scripture. Post a Comment Links to this post: <$BlogBacklinkTitle$> <$BlogBacklinkSnippet$> posted by <$BlogBacklinkAuthor$> @ <$BlogBacklinkDateTime$> Create a Link more manifesto March 2006 April 2006 July 2006 October 2006 January 2007 July 2007 [back to the manifesto main page]